Ged: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Card Cast, the podcast where Milan and I take a card at random from a deck of cards just like this. A deck of cards that Milan has created and produced. They’re, they’re very tactile. They feel lovely. You should get a set. Let’s shuffle the deck and see what pops up.
Milan: What don’t you want to do? Oh, I know the magical questions. I don’t know if you remo. Remember though? What do you recommend? Question is another really, really powerful, very simple tool. This one plays a role much earlier. Actually it’s I think it’s one of the magical questions to ask during job interview. You know, we are both. Fans of top grading or a version thereof. You know, we’re, we’re heavily borrowing from that book in our practice as many, many coaches do. And this is one of the questions that’s really, really help a players and [00:01:00] non A players very, very quickly. Because an A player, somebody who’s really good at something and passionate and something, you know, the person you want to hire for that particular job will be very clear about, this is not what I want to do.
Because they know that by answering that question, what don’t you want to do? They’re giving you a chance to set up an expectation, set up the expectations, or to. Put them in the place of success so they don’t have to, they don’t show up the next Monday after they, you know, sign the contract. And the thing they don’t want to do will be staring them in the face.
And you want to know that too, to make sure that you don’t put them into that position.
Ged: This is about
Milan: It couldn’t, couldn’t be any
Ged: Yeah.
Milan: Couldn’t be any simple, you know, we are setting expectations in another cart, and this is sort of the flip side of that, right? It’s really like, not just what you’re great at, but hey, what is it that you are not good at?
What is it that, what, how would it look like? Or what would it be that would make you not enjoy [00:02:00] what you’re doing, right, or what would you struggle with? It’s interesting what you learn sometimes, you know, I think that the card is mentioning a story. This literally happened to me. So I’m sitting there doing an interview and it was before, before I even got did a top grading. And earlier in my career, and I’m asking this lady so what is it that you know you are not very good at? And she says, I just hate the detailed and you know, tedious work. And I’m like, you are interviewing for a bookkeeper position. You know, I was like, literally, did she just say that? It’s unbelievable at the time.
But again, that’s, that was a long time ago. And just asking that question just reveals a lot and tells you, Hey, do, does the person know how they answer? Nor just what do they answer what they tell you, but hey, are they very clear about what they don’t want to do? Because that’s the flip side of what they’re very good at.. Ged: Sounds
Milan: Do they try to please you? Do they start [00:03:00] thinking about what you want to hear rather than going there? Are they being vague or are they being direct and specific? You, again, you learn so much as, you know, in, in the interview sometimes how the question is answered tells you more than what, what is the actual content?
Ged: Yeah, because A players, they, they’ve got a very, very clear idea of what they love doing, but they also have a very, very clear idea of what they don’t like doing or they don’t want to do now. And you know, the best way to keep an A player is to keep on giving them more of what they want to do and less of what they don’t want to do. And, but, but as you come down into a B and a C player, they’re probably less clear about what they. Don’t wanna do. Now they, they probably can’t articulate what it is. But if they can, then that’s giving you a great insight in as to whether they’re gonna be right for that particular role. I’m, I’m just thinking back onto scorecards and, you know, there is a merit in, in [00:04:00] introducing this.
Don’t, do, don’t want to do list into a scorecard, you know, to the ideal person for this role needs to want to do these core competencies. Now they want to do these. Core accountabilities, but they’re probably not very good at this because if they’re good at that, they’re probably not good at what’s up there, and that’s what we want from them.
Milan: Yeah. You know, in, in our break between the episodes, we were talking about a future episode when we’ll be we’ll be talking to Norman Wolf about sort of the human in the machine card. And yes, you know, some of the cards are not chosen at random because when we bring a guest, we don’t want to shock them with talking about some things. And what he is talking about a lot is the concept of choice. Right. If you go back to, and I actually picked this up from, from Sean Flaherty. If you go back to the [00:05:00] self-determination theory the top of that chart, if you know the triangle is autonomy, right?
Ged: Yep.
Milan: By asking this question, you are actually giving people agency.
Right, because you are effectively asking them, look, tell me what you don’t want to do to make sure that I will not expect it from you. And if this role does expect it from you, now you have a choice. Right. You are actually really, and that’s what, that’s what a players want. They want, they want the autonomy, they want the agency, they want the, they want the choice to join or not to join.
And, and this is one of the tools, how you can do that. Like, like, oh, let’s set up the parameters, right? And this is your chance to tell me what will not fly. So we don’t find ourselves in that, in that situation. It’s. Incredibly incredible, powerful little question.
Ged: I think I, I know how you’re gonna [00:06:00] answer this next question from me is, you know, how do you, how do you detect when someone is answering that question Give you the answer they think you want rather than the real, true answer. Because some people are just just desperate for jobs. They’re desperate to get the next role, and they’re gonna tell you whatever they think they want.
You want them to say, how do you detect that
Milan: Very easily.
Ged: In the tone?
Milan: No, you just feel it. It, it is just, it’s obvious. It’s so freaking obvious, right?
Ged: It’s
Milan: They start thinking, you know, they start thinking about it for a while. They may be, are like you know, I don’t know. You know, then they give you sort of the blank answer right. The I remember the, the very old joke, like, you know. Of the you know, what’s your weakness? Well, I’m really honest. That’s not weakness. Well, I don’t give a shit what you think. You know, that’s a, that’s a similar example. So sometimes you hear, well, I’m not [00:07:00] very good at, you know, leaving on time. Like, really?
Ged: Yeah.
Milan: You just say that’s another textbook example of a bad answer. But trust me, you asked that question, you will know. Whether you are getting honest answer or not immediately you know, and if you have any doubt about the answer, then you are probably getting bullshit.
Ged: Yep. Yeah, what was that great quote? I can’t remember what it was from. I’m sure you’ll know. You know, if there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
Milan: Oh yeah, that’s one of the best movies of all time with Robert De Niro is the Roman, I don’t remember the year. I think somewhere in nineties, but that’s exactly it. You know, lesson number one or the first thing they teach you when there is a doubt. There is no doubt of, and I think the, the the dialogue continues.
Where did they teach you that? I don’t remember. That’s the second thing they did.[00:08:00]
Ged: Well, well, I, I think we should end that episode on a Robert De Niro quote, so that would be a really good way to end the episode.
Milan: Yeah, absolutely.
So let’s wrap. Or did you expect another quote?
Ged: No, no, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all.
Milan: I thought you would say, are you talking to me? But no. Okay.
Ged: Obviously not as much a Robert De Niro fan as you are, but I know exactly what you mean, the reference. Yeah.
Milan: No, no. This is this.
Ged: I thought that ending was just really natural. It was just a nice no, yeah. Wind
Milan: There is no reason. Yeah, simple question. Doesn’t need a long epi, but you know, we would just go over the same things over and over again. I think we are in good shape.
Ged: Yep. A teaser for this one as well.
Milan: Yes.
Let me do that. Maybe.
What don’t you want to do? Do you know when you do, [00:09:00] you’re probably an A player? That’s what we talked about in the episode. We just finished recording. It’s a club card. So it’s all about mindset and about asking the right questions, both to ourselves and of others. It’s a tool that he used through hiring to reveal who’s a player and who isn’t Very, very quickly and very, very easily. Great tool to put into your hiring toolbox. Jet, anything to add?
Ged: I, I think one of the things you mentioned was, you know, a players know what they don’t want to do. And, you know, they can articulate it clearly. So it’s about clarity of expectations. You know, if you know what someone wants to do and what they don’t wanna do, you can tailor the role to, to really, really hone in on their expertise and their skills. And a players wanna do more of what they want do and less of what they don’t wanna do. It’s as simple as that.[00:10:00]
Milan: Hey, can we go home now? Yep.
Ged: Yeah, we’re not gonna be able to squeeze another one in.
Milan: No, I think and look, getting, getting two is great because that just keeps us ahead. ’cause we do have, we do have a few in the can, so we are good.
Ged: Yeah,
Milan: If you note you can stop the recording actually. Ged: Indeed.
Milan: J just heads up, you might have known.
