Ged: [00:00:00] Welcome back. Sorry. I’ll wait for you to finish adjusting.
Milan: You. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Ged: Welcome back to podcast. The podcast where Milan and I choose a card. We deal a card at random from a pack of cards just like this one, and we talk about the topic on the card. Let’s shuffle the deck.
Milan: And is a card. You know this one. Oh my goodness. Okay. This card was inspired by two points in time, that only after a while I realized are deeply connected. One of them was a story, so I’ll start with that one. Couple of years ago, years ago you know. Our family was planning a trip to Europe to visit [00:01:00] the grandparents, two young kids at the time. And you know, everything’s fine. You know, it’s an evening we’re starting to pack, or, you know, saying, you know what, we have time in the morning, so it’ll be pretty easy. Our flight was mid-afternoon. You know, it’s actually a pretty short drive to the airport from where we live, so all. Right? So we’re doing the preparation.
Kids are going to bed everything fine until a moment when I say, okay, here are the documents, let’s put them all together. And I randomly open the passports to find out that the passports of both of our children have expired. So yeah, imagine, so we
Ged: Thought you. I thought you were. I thought you were going there and I was thinking, I hope not.
Milan: Yeah. So so like, you know, so imagine the moment, right? The dread, and I think that the most painful. Thought was that I will have to call my mom and saying that her grandchildren are not coming because, you know, [00:02:00] from some age as when it comes to your parents, you are really becoming the grandchildren delivery service, and that’s your main role at that point. So that was it, right? So I was like, oh shit. Like, what are we going to do? This is like, no way, right? But is there, right? So I’m just thinking about it and saying, you know what. There is a passport service downtown that’s open all day. They do have express service. It’s 24 hours, but if we show up and delete our case, maybe just maybe.
Okay. Right. They will be able to give us those passports in time. So what do we need to do? Well, you know, we have to be ready and do all of that stuff. So, you know, I’m printing out the paperwork while my wife Janet is picking up the kids and waking them up and dressing them up because, hey, now it’s 10:00 PM and we need to get passport photos, right. Which fortunately is possible, there is a [00:03:00] convenience store chain here in Canada that is open and has that service. So we were able to do that. Back packing, you know, at the, at about one in the morning, we were all packed, ready to go, left early in the morning for the passport office. Thought it will be early in the line.
We were about the 20th in the line because obviously there’s a lot of people with similar issue, it seemed like. Eventually I walk up to the line and say, Hey, you know I remember Chris was at that point and saying, you know what? You aren’t the stupidest person you’re gonna talk today. You know, it’s gonna be all uphill from here.
So, you know this is what’s going on, you know? Kids’ passports have expired and we are on the flight this afternoon and she’s like, why didn’t you come head air? I said, well, because I’m an idiot. I thought we already covered that, but you know, I’m here now. And she just looked at me, looked at a paperwork, checked, checked everything several times and then said [00:04:00] be back by new. So I
Ged: So there was a way. Mm-hmm.
Milan: There was a way. There was a way. And, and really that was the only way that could have worked at that point. Right? Literally the only way that could have worked at that point. So we just followed the steps. There was no other option. There was nothing to think about..
This is the path how it goes. And I was reminded of this story years later when, you know, you and I are sitting in Whistler and listening to, Dr. Ben Hardy talking about the impossible goal and using a time as a tool and doing those things because, you know, trust me at the. PM at that night back, that felt pretty impossible,
Ged: Yeah, I can imagine.
Milan: There weren’t too many ways of how to get there. It was literally one path. And if everything along that path goes well, we’ll succeed. If not we are no better. We are no worse off that if we didn’t try. [00:05:00] Right.
Ged: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Milan: Much, that was pretty much all to it.
Ged: Well, there were some real constraints there. You know, you knew exactly, you know, working back from that, that sort of, that dead point, you know, the, the point that you of no return, you knew exactly what had to happen in the sequence and it could only really work that way. So, so at least you didn’t have to have the discussion or the thought process of, you know, okay, how, how else could we do this?
There, there was only one way it looks like.
Milan: Absolutely, absolutely. Like only one office to go to. Clearly what time we need to be there. Only one place where we could get the photos, like, you know, like the, the. Impossibility of the goal and the short timeline reduced our options to the point where there was just one path, and that was, that was the path that we took and that we ultimately succeeded.
So I didn’t have to call my mom. That was great. We just showed up like if nothing ever happened,
Ged: Yep.
Milan: A little more tired because nobody slept at night, obviously. But that [00:06:00] was, that was about it.
Ged: Sure, for sure. And, and when, when Ben Hardy was telling about, telling us about this concept, you know, he used the, you know, the term impossible goal. And now the, the way he described it as, as I recall it, you know, it’s a couple of years ago now, was, you know, you, now you, you, you set an impossible goal and then you work back from there, you know, and the question is, you know, no is what has to be true.
To bring this goal to life. So what are the things that have to be true? And that just removes all the constraints. It removes all the other options that aren’t gonna help you get there. So what initially seemed like an impossible goal could actually be quite real in the end. Hmm.
Milan: Yeah. You go through that process and regardless whether that hand has been dealt to you or whether you use it as a tool, right? We talked about that, that, you know, you set up a goal and say, Hey. You know, we want to do this in three years. What would have to be true in order for us to do it in one, [00:07:00] ’cause that gets you to the point that gives you the filter and say, well, doing this thing is actually not helping us to get there.
So why do we do that? Right? Why don’t we just put it aside and focus only on the, on the things that are moving us towards towards the goal. And you know, Dr. Hardy was mentioning, Hey, you know, my goal is to. A whole bunch of books. So why would I be doing anything that is actually not writing more books, right?
Ged: Yeah.
Milan: Have a block? Why would I have a consulting business? No, I just need to read I just need to write things in order to do it in the, in the short enough short enough period of time. So that’s, it really is the clarity of thoughts that the impossibility of the goal or impossibility of the timeline or combination thereof. Forces you to take and to then look at, you know, and we talked about it in other other car episode about the, you know, do not do list. [00:08:00] Eliminate things that are really not on the path to your goal, and making sure that you are giving the courtesy of your attention only to tasks and projects that are leading in the direction.
Ged: There’s a, there’s another story from our coach community that is very, very similar. I I recorded a podcast with Richard Bryan, another one of our colleagues know another Metronomics coach. And he, he was at that session with with Benjamin Hardy as well. And I’m, I’m not sure if you rem remember this, but you know, it really struck me, you know, the, you know.
Richard put his hand up to sort of, you know, talk about something that he had a as, as a long-term goal, and now I’m not gonna go into details about it, but he’d, he’d set himself a 10 year goal to. To basically shed a lot of his commercial interests so that he could focus on what he really loved, which was coaching and his speaking, you know, his speaking [00:09:00] engagements. So, so he, he told us about this 10 year goal, and then Ben Hardy said, well, you know. Why, why couldn’t you do that in three years? And you could see Richard go, oh no, that’s, that’s a bit scary. I’m not too sure about that. So, I mean, that’s that’s a lot to do in, in three years. And he, he talked it through and he, and then he said yeah, okay.
No, I, I, I think I could probably do it in, in three years. And then Ben said, whoa. Why couldn’t you do it in one year? And then there was another reaction, very, very similar. And, you know, and cut, cut, you know, cutting a, a relatively long story short Richard actually ended up doing it in a year and a half.
So it wasn’t one year, but it wasn’t 10 years and it wasn’t three years. So,
Milan: Yep.
Ged: He’s now shared nearly all of his other interests and he is solely focused on his coaching business and his speaking engagement business. So another, another great example.
Milan: Actually he contributed that story [00:10:00] to the Art of Scaling book. Right.
Ged: Yep, yep.
Milan: Which is new one that that Dr. Hardy told us about him writing.
Ged: Yeah. Yeah. The science of scaling. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Milan: Yeah. Yeah. Science of side
Ged: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Milan: It’s no, I, I remember, you know, I remember that well. And obviously his story is much more impressive than mine. However the
Ged: You still managed to get, you still managed to get to your destination in time.
Milan: Exactly, exactly.
Ged: Yep.
Milan: That context, it was a success. Think
Ged: So in, in,
Milan: The difference between the two is that he self-imposed that timeline, which, you know, it was given to me. But from that moment on, that principle is the same. What needs to be
Ged: Yep.
Milan: Order for us to do that and let’s focus only on what needs to be true and we can control that is what requires our attention, and that is what [00:11:00] deserves our effort to actually get us to that point. And that’s it.
Ged: And, and sometimes that deadline doesn’t have to be a true deadline. You can fabricate a deadline to to galvanize action. And Patrick Linney talks about this in silos politics and turf wars. One of his earlier books, which I absolutely love, I think it’s an awesome book. And he, he uses a notion of a thematic goal.
Now, a group of leaders, you know, a leadership team, they set a thematic goal and they impose an artificial deadline just to galvanize action. Now everyone knows the deadline isn’t real but because they’ve all signed up to. Achieving the deadline now through the, the mechanism of a thematic goal, it galvanizes action and brings it to life even when it’s not necessarily as urgent as that.
And, and maybe it’s sort of getting something out to market faster than anyone else. Now nothing’s saying you’ve gotta get this out to market quickly, but if you do, [00:12:00] there’s probably some benefits. So, you know, a thematic goal is a really good way of, of making that sort of thing come to life.
Milan: Even if you don’t impose that deadline, truly if you use it as a tool, right? Think about a war game scenario. Like literally we are gaming out, we are gaming out a scenario of what would need to happen in order for us to do this in a year or do it in the six months. Yeah. Though it sounds ridiculous, because through that exercise you might find out it’s actually not as ridiculous.
Like what, what Richard did, They say, you know what? I can do it in three years. There seems to be a path to do it in one. And yeah. You know, we can afford a 50% slip, you know, good on him, right? But hey if he hadn’t gone through that exercise. He would’ve probably spent 10 years doing that than spending year and a half doing what mattered.
So now he has eight and a half [00:13:00] years left to do whatever the hell he wants with his time. Isn’t that wonderful?
Ged: Yep. And a key part of this concept is the, is the concept of constraints. Now when we talk about constraints, we often think of those as an in the negative. We think of them as a bad thing. You know? Now if you, if you’re removing an industry constraint, that’s a good thing. But here we’re actually using them positively because we are saying that the constraints reduce your options.
They reduce your choices. So there is often only one path. There is only one way to do it. So constraints can be good and bad, and in this concept you know, they’re, they’re actually very good because they just make the decision process a lot clearer.
Milan: Well, speaking of constraints you know, there is the book, beautiful Constraints, which a beautiful constraint, which I can’t pull the author out of thin air. I’m sorry. But it’s talking specifically about this. Right about how to take a [00:14:00] constraint and actually what he calls it make it beautiful, right?
Make it so it has this impact on illuminating the path to whatever, you know, whatever your goal is.
Ged: I’ve not read that book. I shall add that to my list.
Milan: It’s on my bookshelf. And, you know I think that the re the listeners will forgive me for looking it up real quick because we should give it. Okay. Adam Morgan and Mark Barden already authors and yes, the book is on my website as a, as a you know, one of the references.
Ged: Mm-hmm. So, so the other part of this that we haven’t really spoken about is the impossible timeline. Now what, why is, why is that important? Because often when we talk about impossible deadlines, we talk [00:15:00] about imposing too much stress on a team. And I mean, it’s demotivating if you don’t get there. And our people don’t like things that are impossible.
So, so why? Why is this subtly different?
Milan: Well, you know, I think you can use my story for that, right? Because if I realized weeks in advance, or let’s, let’s just change this, change the scenario a little bit. Like, let’s, let’s say I have three days, right? Between the moment of departure and everything, and I’m saying, you know what yeah, I’ll just. Go to the passport, I will go take the pictures in the morning. I’ll go to the passport office. I can choose if I want to save some money and ask for the 48 hour and risky. That day will be late or the 24 hour to have an extra buffer, right? Suddenly I have a whole bunch of decisions to make backpedal another week, and suddenly I don’t have to go all the way downtown to that one passport office.
I can go to the one, [00:16:00] that is nearby. They don’t have the 48 hour option, but they do have the seven day option when they actually mail it to you. Great. Right? Not only I am now effectively filling the time given to me with activity and you know, the task will be on my head, you know, is the, is the mail going to come in time?
Can I rely on that? You know, what is it that I’m going to do, right? Do I save money or not? Like suddenly I have all of these decisions to actually achieve the same goal. If I would say to myself. Hey, I need to have that passport tomorrow afternoon, right? And follow the same goals, even if the timeline wasn’t real.
Yes, I would have to lie about the departure, right? To convince that particular person. I wouldn’t do that again. We’re using an example. You’re not making suggestions. Is you know, the point is that 12 hours later. I would have the passports in my hand and I would have two more weeks [00:17:00] not worry about that and I could do something else with my time rather than spend time driving there and then and going back to pick it up and, you know, do doing all of those things.
So I think that the timeline is critical because if you compress it, it’s really, really allows you to focus on the most efficient way of getting the, getting the desired result, which. For nothing else. If it has no other impact, it just leaves you with a whole bunch of other time to create additional value or do whatever it is so you want, even if it’s just to kick back and relax.
Ged: And that that works when you can make this the one thing, the main thing, you know, because the implication of making this impossible goal, the thing that you’ve gotta do is that other things might have to suffer. You might have to say, well, okay. We are not focused on that anymore. We are putting that aside.
We are not gonna worry about that now, and maybe we pick it up again once the impossible goal has been reached. But you’ve gotta have that ability to do that. You know, if you’re trying to do four things, then now an [00:18:00] impossible goal is not gonna work because you’re gonna get distracted by all the other things.
So you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta be totally focused on this one thing. It’s gotta be the main thing.
Milan: The only thing.
Ged: The only thing,
Milan: You have to decide what
Ged: Yeah.
Milan: Know, what that goal is. And I wouldn’t call it a sacrifice, but I would call it prioritize, you know, for
Ged: Sure.
Milan: In that, in that specific in that specific area. So to
Ged: So as I.
Milan: Right, like constraints are good. Sometimes the life gives them to you and sometimes you can create it yourself. The outcome is the same. You can generally achieve much more you could if in absence of those constraints.
Ged: Okay, good summary.
Milan: Yeah.
Ged: Yep. Yep. Now you didn’t actually introduce the card. [00:19:00] I didn’t wanna interrupt you because that would’ve been harder to edit in. So right at the beginning, you know, you, you went straight into the story, but you didn’t actually say the name of the card. So I think we can probably just record a very short segment now that Adam can add in at the beginning.
Milan: That would be Luke, not Adam. But apart from that Ged: Luke. Sorry. Luke. Why do I, why do I keep on doing that? It’s the second time I’ve done that.
Milan: I have no idea. I don’t know, Adam. Sorry. I just got, you know, from that client, I just got a whole bunch of, whole bunch of messages. Oh, okay. Good. Good, good, good. Oh
Ged: So,
Milan: We
Ged: So should we?
Milan: Recording, so I can’t tell you any details.
Ged: Yeah. Yeah.
Milan: On. So, okay, let me do a impossible goal. Now. The, now the thing is, what is important Jet is [00:20:00] that the card does not actually have the title on it, It’s the, it’s the title of the article and. I I’ll leave it up to Luke, but because people are just looking at a picture, right. And then we start talking, it’s because, and the reference to, right. I don’t think that that introduction is necessarily missing, but let’s do it. One,
Ged: No, no, no, no. It’s entirely up to you. I mean I just, I know that in previously we’ve, we have referenced the, what we call the title of the card, so Yeah.
Milan: Yeah. 100%.
Ged: Entirely up to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So should we, we, if, if that you’re happy with that, that’s fine. We can go straight onto the.
Milan: I’ll do that segment and leave it up to, up to Luke to either use it or not. Because I think that you have a point oh, this is the impossible goal card. And there is a story behind that one.[00:21:00]
Ged: It certainly is a story. Yeah.
Milan: Let’s see if that’s useful. Like, you know.
Ged: I mean, if, if there’s two speakers there. So Luke could swap between you and me, and that would make it easier to splice the rest in. Yep.
Milan: Exactly.
Ged: Okay. Should we do the the pre, the pre-roll, the, the teaser? Mm-hmm.
Milan: Yeah.
Ged: Yep.
Milan: I’m doing so much talking in the cart, why don’t you do the, yeah.
Ged: Mm-hmm.
So Milan and I have just finished recording The Impossible Goal. Now that’s gonna air soon. But just so you know what’s coming, this card is all about an experience that Milan had when he had to set an impossible deadline to get passports renewed for, for his kids. Well, well, the. The spoiler alert is that the passports get issued, but you should watch [00:22:00] the podcast for the full details.
It’s a good story. You’ll learn a lot from it.
Milan: And, I would just add that you know, it, this is not about a story. It’s about what its story represents, and that is how a constraint, whether it’s a time or a size of a goal or the impossibility of the goal, allows us to focus to the point where it might no longer be impossible.
Ged: We need,
Milan: All right. I think so. Can we
Ged: Okay.
Milan: Before going through the next one?
Ged: Yeah, I will stop the recording though. And then Luke, I can’t pause, but we’ll have to stop it and Luke knows how to stitch ’em together after that, so it’s easy enough I could do a topping up my water so it breaks a good idea.
Milan: Okay. Sounds good.
