Milan: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome again to card Cast where we pick one interesting topic and could we close the door? Do it.
Hello and welcome back to Cart Cast, where we pick a random topic that interests CEOs or the CEOs might be struggling with, and actually any, any leader really. And we’ll just pick it randomly from a cart from a deck of cards. We’ll shuffle and off it goes. So let’s shuffle today and see what comes up.
Ged: So the card that’s come up is the 10 80 10 principle. Now this is a relatively new one to me, so I’m looking forward to talking about this one today. And, and, and this, this. Technique here is really that helps you get stuff off your plate. A short while ago we recorded an episode on the on.
What do you recommend? So, [00:01:00] David Marque’s concept about how do you, how do you turn people around from always asking how to do things? Turn them around into being able to do it for themselves. So how do you actually teach people to take stuff off your plate? And this is one of the techniques that is really, really effective in, in doing this. So, 10 80 10 principle. This is directly from this book by back Your Time. If you haven’t read it, then this should certainly be on your book list because it’s a, it’s a real game changer. It helps you. What it says on the front helps you buy back your time.
Milan: Okay. Nice plugin. You know, den Martin should be happy. Regardless, you said this is a new tool for you or a newish concept? What did you mean by that? I’m surprised.
Ged: Well buy back. Your time has only been out it two years. Two years, three years.
Milan: Oh, actually, wow. I.
Ged: Yeah. So yeah, it’s made a big impact in the [00:02:00] time it’s been out. So, so when I say it’s new to me, I mean, it’s, it’s, it is from that book and I only came across it when I read the book. So. And I think a lot of, a lot of these tools and techniques are interrelated.
You know, one might be a concept and the other one might be a, a tool that actually helps you implement the concept. So we’ve gotta bring them together and that’s the power of understanding all these tools and, and techniques. So the 10 80 10 principle is really applicable. When, when, say, say someone is looking to clear their desk, they’re looking to clear their plate, get thing off their.
Get things off their plate, but they’re not ready to completely let go yet. Now that might be because they’re struggling to let go. It might be because they haven’t actually trained or empowered or developed the next level of people to the extent that they can just take it, the whole thing off your plate.
Milan: I would, I, yeah, I would say it’s almost yeah. It’s almost a life preserver, you know, in a way. Or, or little, little set of training [00:03:00] wheels, if you will, because really the. Big problem is you know, and you mentioned it actually in the in the, who do you, what do you recommend? Is that when you were talking about the, if you want to do it right or if you want to get get done right, you do it yourself.
It’s ingrained in us. It’s ingrained in people and say, I cannot. And sort of the block of, I cannot give this to somebody else because they want to do it right, therefore I’ll do it myself, which means that now I’m denying them the ability to learn. And that’s the trap. And of it goes, and eventually you burn out and die and you know, the company goes with you. The this is, this is a tool, how to overcome that hesitation, how to overcome that trepidation, how to. Take things off your plate safely so you can learn. To give them away. Well, and they can learn to do them. So you can build that confidence and [00:04:00] build that trust to eventually move on to move on to bigger things. And yeah, it doesn’t mean giving the whole task. And you know, which reminds me of hundred episode, which was on the topic of abdication versus delegation. That’s exactly what it isn’t, right? You, you retain the accountability for the outcome and you spend. The first 10% of what the task takes on clarifying what it actually is.
What is it that you expect? How does a good look like and what is the impact of it? You can use Dan Sullivan’s Impact Filter. That’s a really useful tool for that framing of the task. Then comes the 80% of actually doing, and that’s on them, right? But then you are reserving the 10% at the end, which is to do.
For lack of a better word, a quality check. What is actually quite interesting, and you know, when Dan [00:05:00] wrote the book now, now he’s talking a lot about ai, but actually the same thing applies when you’re using AI to do something right. You spend some time. To make sure that your prompt is right, that you have your knowledge base in place, that the that the agent or the, or the model understands the context within which this is happening.
You might have a conversation, fine tuning the prompt and doing it. Then the job gets done. It might be, it’s not 80% of the time, it might be seconds or minutes or, you know, whatever that is. But then you need to have at the end the piece of, is this what I expected? Do we need to go back and rework some of that.
But again, you saved the 80% time in the, in the middle. And that time can be put somewhere else into moving the organization further And again using the 80 20 principle, right? Spend your time in the 20% things that matter and bring 80% of the results and learn how to farm out [00:06:00] the rest, which this tool really helps you to do.
Ged: Marel said in his book, 80% of something done by someone else is 100% awesome.
Milan: Exactly 80% and 800% also. Yeah. I love this quote too.
Ged: So if we break it down in a bit more detail, that first 10, 10%, now that’s, that’s definitely still on you. That’s where you, that’s where you set the context for what you are trying to achieve and, and be super clear on the outcomes that you expect.
And you might have to bring in some information to, to collect some information. So the person you’re gonna give it to has everything they need. And
Milan: Do you know? Do you know what those 10, do you know what those 10%, I’m sorry, but do you know what those 10% are so hard.
Ged: So you are having to do something that you wouldn’t have to do if you were
Milan: Exactly,
Ged: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Milan: This is actually a new skill I.
Ged: All up here
Milan: Right.
Ged: Mm-hmm.
Milan: Yeah, exactly. It’s, [00:07:00] yeah, it’s actually a new skill because you know the requirements. You don’t need to worry about how to communicate them clearly and how to make sure that they were received correctly. Right, because it’s all in your head.
Exactly. So that is actually a new skill that needs to be trained, and it’s very often a barrier for a. Leader who is used to doing things themselves. They are expert in getting things done. They’re expert in that particular field, but they’re not necessarily an expert yet in how to lead others to get them to that point.
So this is, this is very often a sticking point.
Ged: Yeah. Yes,
Milan: They say they cannot do it, right? Yeah. They’re saying like, I can’t give this job to somebody because they cannot do it. Right. Well, the actual problem is that they cannot. Themselves define the task or define the project well enough so somebody actually has a flighting chance to to deliver it correctly.
I.
Ged: So you, you’ve gotta set that [00:08:00] person up for success. So you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta be clear on the outcomes you’re looking for, you know, the context, any information they might need, and then you’ve gotta communicate that across to whoever is gonna be doing it. And that’s the transition point. That’s when you hand it over for the next 80%. So they then do the actual work and they may have to come back to you to ask questions. They may have to come back to you to get clarification or, or, or whatever else, you know. So it’s not necessarily hand over and forget about it. Now there may still be that loop, loop back mechanism, but that, but that’s okay. Then once they’ve done that 80%, they then come back and say, okay. Let’s go through this and let’s check if this is what you’re looking for. So they check on the results. And it might be a, a, an open, you know, it might know, it might be sort of a asynchronous as in like, no, here it is. Tell me what it’s good.
Tell me what’s bad. Or it may be synchronous and, okay, let’s talk through this. Let’s at what you’ve done, and you maybe to give that feedback live. And, and that is what I think works best [00:09:00] because in the, in the moments, you are able to say, ah, okay, yeah, yeah, but. You didn’t think about this or you’ve still gotta think about this and like, so there may be another iteration, but then when it does come back to you 80%, well now 90% complete because we’re 90% through the a hundred. The last 10 is just that final, yes, this is what I’m looking for. This is great. The more you do that, the more you are gonna be empowering your team to take stuff off you now so that. Any percent of something done by someone else is awesome. So the more you can do that, the more percents you get off your desk, off your plate. Nothing can be bad about that, surely.
Milan: Well there might be, but you know, you gave me an idea, which is really three phases. You set them up for success, then they succeed, and then you make sure that they succeeded.
Ged: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Milan: The, there’s the split, but the, the thing is that the 80% [00:10:00] in the middle, from the point of view of our leader, the expert is the easy part of the job for them.
It might not be easy for the person they’re giving it to. So that’s where the trap is, right? Because the other staff, the first 10 and the last 20 can actually be harder, right? Not more time consuming, but harder. But nobody else can do that part. So they need to, so somebody can do the 80, 80% in the middle.
Ged: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and I’m sure this, this would resonate with any new leader who has tried to delegate a task down to someone who has never done it before. Now I’ve certainly done this and I’ve been amazed at a how long it takes, how wrong it can be when it comes back. Because I haven’t set the context properly, I haven’t given them all the information they need. And it only takes a few times before you realize, right, okay, I need to treat this seriously. This is a serious handover, and to set them up for [00:11:00] success. All these things need to be in place before I can even hope that they can do a good job. An 80% done job of this task.
Milan: You know, we’re talking on the task resolution, but it also could be a role resolution. Right where the definition of right, it, it can be ongoing, right? Like, hey, I am giving this part of the accountability to you. I’m still keeping the first 10%, which is defining what it is and the last 10%, which is to make sure that that we, we actually succeeded.
But the same principle applies. One third though, you used the word delegate. I heard from several of our colleague coaches recently that they hate that word, and I think that it might be even banned in some parts of the Metronomics community. So what’s your take on that
Ged: I mean, it’s, it’s a word that’s been around for a long time and it’s a word that is, [00:12:00] you know, is, is. Has different meanings. So I guess it depends on the meaning that you are giving it. Now you, we, we, you’re absolutely right, we don’t want to delegate in the old way of thinking about delegation. What we want people to do is to be, is to be putting their hand up to take ownership. There still is that decision point of, okay. Am letting, I am giving. I’m allowing someone to take this on. And yes, we want them to take ownership. Now whether the ownership is there or not, it’s still delegation in my mind. The only difference is that we are actually looking for proactive ownership. Yes, I’ve got this. I will take this off your plate. So delegation with ownership is what I’m talking about. Is that, is that what you are thinking?
Milan: Pretty much. And you know, when, when I first heard this I you know that it’s a bad word in the, in the community I was like, [00:13:00] why? And again, I am ESL, right? So I learned to understand the word from the beginning as. Sharing a lot, really. I think that, you know, we had a full episode on a, and there is a card on delegation versus abdication.
And I think that when people are fighting the word delegation so strongly, they actually have abdication in their mind the way we explain it in that episode. So, again, delegation for me is not a bad word, but it has to be done right. And,
Ged: And
Milan: You know, 10 80, exactly under 10, 80 10 is a good starting point of how to learn to share the workload, AKA delegate some of the, some of the work to others and helping them grow in the process.
’cause they will run, learn through the 10% in the [00:14:00] beginning and through the 10% at the end to take more and more over as, as time goes.
Ged: Yep. And the question then is. Are you gonna do with that 80% of the time that you’ve just freed up? Sure you can find plenty to take its place. Right?
